Category: Jobs and Employment
Hi guys,
I'm an English major, sophomore year of college. I've been having a few doubts today about it though, wondering if I should change my major to something that's a bit more useful. I love to write, and I'd love to be a book editor... not reviewer... and I'd love to do misc writing that didn't involve journalism. I'd even like to do something with kids or animals, if they didn't require a specialized degree.
What kinds of jobs are out there for a 4-year english degree? I don't want to teach. Should I go for a master's? Are there any jobs which simply require you to have had 4-years of college, regardless of what area you studied?
I'm worried about finding a job when I graduate.
IMHO your worries are founded.
I graduated with a Arts and Letters degree - not by desire but out of necessity when it came down to it. But the bottom line is, degrees like English, General Arts and Letters, etc., give you a reasonably well-rounded education. In the late 70s and early 80s, companies would have snapped you up. The thinking was: get your education and we'll give you skills afterwards.
Not anymore. While CEO types complain about the laziness and / or inefficiency of workers, we working stiffs put in more hours, take less pay home, and go on far fewer vacations than our fathers. There are no company pensions anymore, haven't been since the early 90s. On the other hand, the CEOs of companies don't have a good understanding of product knowledge: if you take someone in, train them in your particular environment / skill sets, you are likely dollar for dollar to have a far greater return on your investment. But that takes more patience than a six-year-old, more foresight than a dog, and more planning than a junky working towards his next fix. And said CEO types generally come out on the south end of all the above comparisons.
What this means for you is not so much get a degree in a particular area (computer science, engineering, etc.) but to acquire the requisite experience. I happened to live through a time - the mid 1990s, where I could grab the bull by the horns and self-teach everything I needed to become first a front-line tech and later a software developer.
When I started hiring people, I made the mistake (to my employer's peril, unfortunately), of assuming anyone graduating with a computer science degree had to be far superior to me: after all, their training was four-year immersion, fill in the rest for yourself. I learned quickly that some are positively brilliant while others you wonder how they got through.
All this to say, look around at what skills you can acquire to be marketable. Remember your future employer is not anymore the long-term, conservative, investment-oriented individual looking to fill a spot and a niche for years. They are now the short-order customer at Walmart who buys cheap products made in China, then returns them six months later because they understandably broke.
So when you think about deliverables to employers, think in terms of their short-term needs / wants. There are exceptions to this, of course, but basically, when you get hired as a young person, they'll want you to do the same type of work your 40 or 50-something predecessor did only at half price.
What I'm saying may not sound fair to management types, and it's not intended to be classist any more than I was anti-animal by explaining the irrational and eratic behavior of a Macaw parrot to my nine-year-old daughter.
If you go into this understanding what you face, you'll be taken off guard much less often.
There is, of course, the gold rush jobs: Go look on any jobs site and look at the number of software developers (and I mean really good ones!) out there compared to the number of jobs for them, and you'll see it's an employer's market.
One final point: what some would call ghettoizing: where you get so specialized in an area you have a hard time working anywhere else because HR types at companies fail to possess the basic deductive reasoning abilities to understand skills transfer: the same reasoning abilities that allowed their ancestors to use the same tool making skills to convert from a hunter-gatherer to an agricultural existence. So as you move along your career path, you have to make choices understanding this. The upside of ghettoization is you can be more of a needed asset to the company into which you are ghettoized, and while in current markets you probably won't earn more because of it, you can at least have a rare semblance of security.
But security basically doesn't exist as it did in my father's and your grandfather's day. Not for young people, not for middle-aged types like me, not for employers, not for global markets, not even for consumers.
Darwin's statement on the evolution of species has possibly never been more true:
“It’s not the strongest species that survive, nor the most intelligent, but the one most responsive to change.”
So, if you get an English major, find a way to make it a marketable item, remembering that in many ways, you're dealing with people who think at, and have the impulse control level of, a fifth grader. You'll be frustrated if you ever expect more of them.
Some would say don't be an English major. I don't think it really matters. It definitely matters that you finish, and that you find a way to make it marketable. As an English major, you probably have the very skills necessary to do the persuasion.
Haunted reverie, do you have a personality for or are you willing to take a risk on sales? I majored in foreign languages & had a college classmate who majored in English. He & I ran into each other about 5 years after graduation, and he & I coincidentally were working for two different divisions of the same company, him in sales. He had his own territory, and you have to be intelligent, well read, and articulate with a good vocabulary to convince people why they should do business with your company & not a competitor. How about technical writing, perhaps simplifying technical literature for the layman?
Technical writing is a definite good choice.
At least grab some gigs while you're in school.
Again, remember things are getting dumber and dumber: When I cut my teeth on networks in the early 1990s, it was as a usability tester and technical writer. In those days, they said to write at an eight-grade level. Believe me, that's going to be tough coming straight out of college where you write at an academic level all the time.
However, your world will be very different: Most recommendations for style now say a fifth-grade level. That's right: People making powerful decisions read at a fifth-grade level now. This will definitelyp present its challenges to you: Everything is in the imperative, and while your teachers in school are asking you to lengthen your proposals, employers want information in six seconds, the literal bare bones of what they think they need to know in order to make a decision. Anyone else besides me glad these people weren't in charge of nuclear phuysics labs or test sites during the Cold War?
Seriously though, I think if you can cross that hurdle, undo a lot of what you get via academia, you'll probably do better than most. Sheeple want to be convinced, and for those capable of doing the convincing, it's their world.
People making powerful decisions reading at a fifth grade level? Totally believable...Approximately five years back, the Superintendent of Schools in Lawrence, Massachusetts, a largely Latino area near the New Hampshire border, failed the state competency test in the English language. That's right someone supervising teachers who are supposed to ensure students pass this same exam in English & math one try out of five couldn't even pass it himself. Couldn't tell you if he was from the Carribean, or Central America, or even raised in the U S A, but he couldn't pass it.
Reminds me of a great piece of Indian literature, KAMA SUTRA OF VATSAYANA, supposed to represent India's Gupta Dynasty. "If you are of the ruling caste, do not engage in misconduct, for the masses will follow." If superintendents can't pass English competency and decision makers are reading fifth grade level, what does this say of the masses? Scary...
I can believe that. Public officials are more visible when they do it. CEO types get their free pass because they somehow extract profits without realizing some very basic long-term planning principles. Then, after they short-stick the company, they bonus out, leave it, go somewhere else and do it again.
The class of people to really respect are the real entrepreneurs: Those people who may or may not have a great education, but they still have some semblance of character and concern for craftsmanship / quality.
When I was in Japan in 1990, during one of our business classes, the Japanese CEO who was instructing us put it this way: "American business owners have no sense of shame to correct their behavior. If we lay off neighborhoods full of people and take home a bonus, we could not show ourselves in public due to embarrassment".
This is a country where if you write a bad check, it goes on the store window. If you shoplift, your picture goes in the window with name and number. Ostracision for bad behavior is as old as the hunter-gatherer societies, where if you were left to fend for yourself in the woods, you'd probably die in a few months or years.
Whether or not it would work on some people, both rich and poor, in this country, I actually don't know. I think some are basically incapable, or that part of themseles has atropheed.
Wow...It's no wonder Japanese are so minimally problematic a group when they come to the U S! It's either they or Jews who have the lowest percent of population in American prisons, and Japanese, Germans, and Canadians are the least likely to go on welfare as far as immigration statistics. It's too bad ostracism doesn't work here. Women, for example, who rob from programs from the legitimately poor where I live get fingerprinted, photographed, and their stories printed in the local paper, along with how much they stole & what sort of time they're facing, but it doesn't seem to be a deterrent. There's such a difference between Japanese & U S society I was watching one of those true crime shows where a member of a prominent Japanese family who were still citizens there were killed in Hawaii, so the Japanese authorities questioned the suspect who feigned innocence, & they were about to release him saying he said he wasn't guilty when the Japanese-American police said, "Look, he lives here now, someone saying they're innocent doesn't mean it" & further police work got 'em their man.
I question your statement that ostracism doesn't work here. I think more to the point, it's simply not been tried.
Getting back to the original poster's question, given your very specific job desires, I'd strongly consider changing your major. I majored in Sociology, concentrating on Human Services. and I'm still trying to break into the job market 2 years later. If you live in a larger city, where technical writing opportunities might be more plentiful, then go for it. But don't assume that just cause you have a degree a job's gonna come flying your way as soon as you graduate. Like another poster said, get all the writing experience you can while still in college. But, if you really want to change your major go for it, it's not too late. At this point, think of what skills are marketable in the area that you live, and how you can adapt to them if necessary. An english major would be great, but only if there are jobs in your area that require one. Gone are the days when any college degree would work to land you a job. Now employers are looking for more specific degrees. Have you ever thought about teaching? Maybe you could go to grad school. But then again, degrees aren't gonna do you any good without some experience to back them up. I'd try to land a job with a Bachelor's degree before I even considered a master's.
Haunted reverie, I wouldn't worry so much about the B.A. Once you finish, you will have finished. A large percentage of people who start college don't finish.
Now I no longer subscribe to NATIONAL REVIEW, but I read their suggestion that part of relieving the middle class should include reducing the requirement of the four year degree for so many jobs. Some of these majors only take two years to finish up, then the student is stuck in years they could be working & saving for retirement taking elective courses. Many college graduates wind up in jobs that only require a high school degree, such as myself, and many in fields that aren't related to their majors, including myself and a nice young guy at my job. Now Carl majored in journalism, hoping to go into sportswriting, but found that field very competitive, and he had to have a job to pay some of the living expenses with his parents, so he works in a medical facility with me. It's not what he hoped for, but it is employment. Any job you get English will serve you with good grammar, spelling, ability to express yourself well in writing. Best of luck!
Nice. Well said.
I usually find advice from NATIONAL REVIEW rather sound when they're not waxing ideological. This sounds like one of those instances: very good sense.
But I have unfortunately had the misfortune of interviewing a couple kids who didn't finish. At the time, I basically wanted to give them a chance to state their case, maybe there was a valid reason which wouldn't detract from employment. After all, I too had a Bachelor's just like last poster said, in not only an unrelated field, but I had to switch on account of medical issues.
But in this case, the stereotype's right, I'm afraid. You gotta finish it. I left those interviews feeling a bit disheartened that none of the nonfinishers had a worthy reason, and my peers were snickering saying "I told you so," and "nice loss of a couple hours". Worst part is, they were right. Least I was man enough to admit it.
Squidward is right: doesn't matter what you ultimately do, if you can write well and write at the level your audience is capable or willing to read at, you'll make it one way or the other, like the rest of us.
Good point, I suppose things are a bit different in the writing field. Good verbal and written communication is good for any job. I've worked with lots of people who didn't have a college degree, and who were higher up in the employment ladder, and they didn't have a degree. Why? Cause they had a ton of experience. I have both a degree and experience, and am finding it difficult to find a decent job. I know the economy sucks right about now, so just be careful in whatever you choose. And yes, get a degree, English or otherwise. It'll at least show that you've finished school. I knew a guy in school who got his B.A. in English. I'm not sure what he's up to now, but I think he wanted to teach literature. Best of luck in whatever you decide.
I'm throwing myself in here, but I don't really have any suggestions about jobs.
All I can say is that when I was looking into what degree to do in 2005, my university stated, at least at that time, that a BA in English with a history minor was the most popular. I would up doing that because I discovered, quite by accident, I had a love for fiction writing.
However, what I'm finding is that a general English degree is difficult. I have a well-rounded education, but choosing a job is difficult.
I will also counter that by saying it's more to do with my blindness than anything else. All the things I've been interested in have been rejected due to my lack of sight. Which has been frustrating in the least.
So far for me, the only jobs suggested to me by everyone is tutoring. Which I'm not opposed to, but I'm finding it difficult to come out ahead. The money I pay for paratransit is taking out of the tutoring money. And when all is said and done, I'm left with little. I have looked into tutoring centers here, but no positions are available.
Despite all this, I know a lot of English majors. One sighted friend did an English degree in secondary Education. She wants to do high school, but no positions are available in her area. However, regardless of that, she still can look at middle school jobs.
I have another sighted friend who is about to graduate with her English degree with a minor in Japanese. She's planning to stay here to teach English as a second language or go abroad.
Another acquaintance has an English degree and is investigating substitute teaching.
And as the original poster mentioned, there are jobs in editing and such, but I'm not familiar with them. However, I know for a fact that things are out there, it's just a matter of gritting your teeth and keep looking.
So overall, I'd say if you like English, then stick with it. It has plenty of options. I also remember that when I went for an English major orienttation, they did say that an English degree was extremely universal, and thus, you had a lot of choices. Lol. Of course, it again goes back to having determination to find them.
Good luck!
To the original poster, would you be willing to teach at the adult ed level? With my foreign language degree I couldn't get motivated to teach at the high school level. There are entirely too many students looking to get that 2 years of a foreign language out of the way for college prep course of study and really don't care whether or not they retain their learning.
English as a Second Language (ESL) teaching may require a one year certificate, and usually private venues, community colleges, even some religious settings offer this course if you would be comfortable in a religious setting. Most immigrants who settle here want to learn English as they realize they'll be limited without speaking it. Also, there are some societies where English as a second language is sorely needed either for business purposes or because of too many local dialects...like India and China...and people are more than happy to pick up English as in some regions you may not be understood within 5 minutes of your home without it. Now prison is a risky setting, but my former boyfriend's brother, a former policeman, taught the G.E.D. class in the state prison & his inmates must have wanted to learn because they all passed the exam the first try. Perhaps G.E.D. or ESL teaching can be something to look into? I knew two Cuban ESL students who have since become nurses, so you're talking a somewhat more adult crowd who sees more the importance of learning. Having a minor like classics, or business administration or another language may help. It may be a little difficult to land your first job, but not impossible. Best of luck!